tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post1286172976322829055..comments2023-10-17T10:45:07.796-04:00Comments on FJB: Take Yes for an Answer, RizzoUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-83850444484434340622010-07-28T12:07:32.270-04:002010-07-28T12:07:32.270-04:00Alright a couple of points as for Dunn resigning t...Alright a couple of points as for Dunn resigning their are of course no guarantees, and yes he might have more teams after him than say a Stanton/King ect. but the Nats will have advantages other teams won't. Dunn I think for the foreseeable future wants to remain in the field, meaning teams like the Yankees, Angels, White Sox ect. who want him as a DH long term are less attractive options. Next I think Dunn enjoys D.C. and the fans that I think he might choose that over an unknown fringe contender. Not to mention Dunn would be coming back to a stronger team since the Nats would have the prospects they acquired. I would put a Dunn reunion with the Nats in the 60% range. <br /><br />As for the meat of the issue in a trade with the White Sox I'd be very happy with a Hudson-Flowers deal, and slightly less happy with a Hudson-Danks. Morel I agree nice value but no room at the inn for the Nationals.<br /><br />It should also be noted that the Nats would save a significant chunk of change that could then be used to help resign Dunn in the offseason (or draft picks, international FA's ect.)Steve Shouphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08995967113869172494noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-43422114223636695802010-07-20T23:30:56.956-04:002010-07-20T23:30:56.956-04:00I think you can make a case for trading Dunn eithe...I think you can make a case for trading Dunn either hurts his feelings or has no impact. I could even argue that trading him would make him more likely to resign with the Nats. Since Dunn appears to be looking for a 4 year deal, he'll be joining a team for the (relative) long term. His buddies Zimmerman and Willingham will still be there next year, and the Nationals will have added two(?) prospects who will contribute to the team over those four years he'll be signed with the team.<br />Furthermore, if the trade ordeal was so horrible, they can always add some sort of no-trade clause into his contract.<br /><br />In the end, though, Steven is right and talk of these hypothetical scenarios is fruitless.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01902355704452340677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-26660332859742199232010-07-20T15:38:31.041-04:002010-07-20T15:38:31.041-04:00Steven-
So do you think that trading Dunn has no i...Steven-<br />So do you think that trading Dunn has no impact on his willingness to resign here?Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06101502397393877984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-58498157863307375342010-07-20T15:32:15.487-04:002010-07-20T15:32:15.487-04:00Truem but I think White Sox trade history has show...Truem but I think White Sox trade history has shown that Rizzo can get what he wants from Williams... as long as it's minor league players.Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738813756060133236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-8371117294106657652010-07-20T15:23:16.778-04:002010-07-20T15:23:16.778-04:00@Harper--Calceterra argued that Rizzo is in a good...@Harper--Calceterra argued that Rizzo is in a good place to drive a hard bargain, and I think this is right. <br /><br />But there are an awful lot of guys who could be DHs around the league. It doesn't help if he holds out for the sun and the moon while Williams trades for Jorge Cantu.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-5622900355727628542010-07-20T14:06:31.001-04:002010-07-20T14:06:31.001-04:00Seems like Rizzo is trying to "buy low" ...Seems like Rizzo is trying to "buy low" on Beckham and Quentin but Williams actually needs those players to win now. (well maybe not Beckham but it would be crazy to give up on him now). Williams doesn't seem to mind tossing minor leaguers after major ones, (because their system is never great and prospects more often fail than not) so why not try for more than one. Hudson and Viciendo, perhaps? That would be fantastic. Strasburg/Hudson/and a recovered Zimmermann could be the type of Top 3 teams dream about.Harperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738813756060133236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-57423322910265521372010-07-20T13:40:49.499-04:002010-07-20T13:40:49.499-04:00This is a stupid discussion.
You should know. You...<i>This is a stupid discussion.</i><br /><br />You should know. You started it, after all.TBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985413477143165605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-80453293582602899432010-07-20T12:59:48.164-04:002010-07-20T12:59:48.164-04:00I think the reason it doesn't usually happen w...I think the reason it doesn't usually happen with premium players is that these players usually get traded by teams that are out of it and rebuilding. Those teams don't usually then turn around and break the bank on an aging vet. Again though, just because it doesn't usually happen doesn't mean that Adam Dunn is going to take less money cuz his feelings were hurt by getting traded.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-74123756783847926572010-07-20T12:50:03.648-04:002010-07-20T12:50:03.648-04:00The best player I can think of who was traded in a...The best player I can think of who was traded in a deadline deal and then re-signed with the club that traded him is Sidney Ponson. I'm sure there's better (by God, there HAS to be), but I doubt the list will be illustrious.<br /><br />I never said that a trade would Be "so hurtful that it ends the possibility of ever resigning with the team that traded the player." That's a straw man. I said it could fray relations, particularly where the player wanted to get an extension, and could make re-signing the player "more difficult."<br /><br />My main point, though, is that Dunn might come with a compensation tag as a free agent if a team to which he is traded offers arbitration (and wouldn't most teams? The issue with Dunn and his body type is not being on the hook for too many years, and a one-year commitment is perfect for that). So it's not a freebie to trade the guy, pick up a prospect, and then just get him back for money.John O'Connorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014476389355562158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-80030202555389276902010-07-20T12:48:28.933-04:002010-07-20T12:48:28.933-04:00This is a stupid discussion.
Dunn is a free agent...This is a stupid discussion.<br /><br />Dunn is a free agent. Regardless whether they trade him or not, the nationals will have to pony up tens of millions to keep him after this year. Trying to parse the theoretical impact of trading him now on the relative potential for the success of theoretical negotiation scenario A vs. theoretical negotiation scenario B is just inane.<br /><br />He's got 2 months left on his deal. After that all bets are off. So you're giving up 2 months, plus potentially the draft picks. That's it. Maybe you could re-sign him, maybe you couldn't. In either scenario, that's a big fat maybe or probably not.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-75428721531238282922010-07-20T12:42:57.899-04:002010-07-20T12:42:57.899-04:00How is it possible that players have trade value i...<i>How is it possible that players have trade value in July or August but then "can't get a job anywhere else" by December?</i><br /><br />Let me introduce you to the concept of an expiration date on a product. If you're starved, you'll drink that carton of milk that expired last month. If you're full, you'll dump it out or serve it to the cat. In July/August, teams that fancy themselves to still have a chance are starved. They'll eat anything they can get their hands on. In December when all but the worst teams are full, the stuff that would get scarfed down in July/August is worthless. King's and Stanton's sell-by dates had already passed by the time they were traded. Dunn's sell-by date is still several years away.TBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985413477143165605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-84237110039668140622010-07-20T12:41:26.886-04:002010-07-20T12:41:26.886-04:00who asked for your help?who asked for your help?Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-86806641107725569542010-07-20T12:38:05.702-04:002010-07-20T12:38:05.702-04:00If you can't see the difference between Ray Ki...If you can't see the difference between Ray King/Mike Stanton and Adam Dunn coming back, then I can't help youffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15519715559791228117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-45122680050534873032010-07-20T12:02:46.381-04:002010-07-20T12:02:46.381-04:00How is it possible that players have trade value i...How is it possible that players have trade value in July or August but then "can't get a job anywhere else" by December?<br /><br />Besides, John's speculation is that the act of being traded is so hurtful that it ends the possibility of ever resigning with the team that traded the player. If it's an emotional issue, then it shouldn't make that much of a difference if you're talking about a fungible lefty in the bullpen or an everyday player.<br /><br />Bottom line, if the Nationals offer Dunn enough money, he'll come to DC. As it was in 2009, so it shall be in 2011.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-55988174996574034902010-07-20T11:56:58.442-04:002010-07-20T11:56:58.442-04:00It's not that unusual. See: King, Ray; Stanton...<i>It's not that unusual. See: King, Ray; Stanton, Mike</i><br /><br />See two guys who couldn't get a job anywhere else except with the worst team in baseball. Adam Dunn is not such a guy.TBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16985413477143165605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-28122116095727657682010-07-20T11:47:57.585-04:002010-07-20T11:47:57.585-04:00It's not that unusual. See: King, Ray; Stanton...It's not that unusual. See: King, Ray; Stanton, MikeStevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-31460261513871092952010-07-20T11:25:20.408-04:002010-07-20T11:25:20.408-04:00I've never been a big believer in the notion t...I've never been a big believer in the notion that you can trade a guy and then pick him back up as a free agent at the end of the year. That seems to happen so rarely with decent players and the very act of trading them may fray relations and make signing the player more difficult.<br /><br />But more to the point, Dunn will, in all likelihood, be a Type A free agent. If the ChiSox offer arbitration, you'd have to give up a second round pick to sign Dunn as a free agent (the Nats' first round pick will be protected). So it's not as if the Nats could re-sign Dunn after the season for nothing except money, even if Dunn were inclined to come back.<br /><br />That said, I'd probably do the deal for Hudson.John O'Connorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08014476389355562158noreply@blogger.com