tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post2284767373226918301..comments2023-10-17T10:45:07.796-04:00Comments on FJB: Is Bowden the Worst GM of All Time?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-30349542713774536122008-09-05T11:35:00.000-04:002008-09-05T11:35:00.000-04:00@Mike--I agree that W-L record is overly reductive...@Mike--I agree that W-L record is overly reductive, and to really do a full, fair assessment of Bowden's performance (or any of these others) that you have to look at all kinds of context. Running the Yankees in the 60s is a lot different than running the Expos in November, 04. And I and others have spilled mountains of pixels looking at all the various points of context.<BR/><BR/>But one of the things that always bugs me in "does Bowden suck or not" conversations is that I think the debate almost always get obscured as you get more into the weeds. You can debate whether the Soriano trade was good or not or whether we should have traded Chad Cordero and Nick Johnson before the 2005 season or whether it he should be able to draft better or if the draft is just a total crapshoot with almost no skill at all as some extreme anti-scout statheads argue, but I insist that if a GM is doing his job well that overall the net effect will be translated into wins. And the longer any GM has had a job the more fair it is to apply that bottom line standard.<BR/><BR/>That's why I think it's kind of absurd for Nate to say that looking at Bowden's overall W-L record is "pointless." Or comparing it to what other MLB GMs have been able to accomplish over similar timeframes. No, it's not close to the full story, but to say that his bottom line ability to field teams that actually win games doesn't matter at all in how you evaluate him is just kooky.<BR/><BR/>Now my sense is that Nate has his own axe to grind, that Kasten and Lerner are the root of all evil, and so I think he interprets my focus on JimBo as somehow a threat to his "Lerners are CHEEEEEP" jihad, which is unfortunate. I think it's possible to have a critique of Bowden and Lerner/Kasten at the same time. I may be wrong about where Nate is coming from, but he's never had anything but dismissiveness in his comments here, so I just get the feeling that he has a closed mind to anything we have to say here.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-36329344359219100642008-09-05T10:41:00.000-04:002008-09-05T10:41:00.000-04:00Dombrowski had the misfortune of coming on prior t...Dombrowski had the misfortune of coming on prior to the '02 season where the Tigers lost 106 and then of course 119 the next year. Certainly they still count, but it is an unusually high number of losses to absorb.<BR/><BR/>The interesting thing is that he has one world series win and another appearance despite having the worst winning percentage. Depending on what your criteria are, W-L may not be an entirely accurate way of measuring effectiveness, given the typical time frame and cycle of rebuilding. Dombrowski has shown, at two different places now, that if you stick with him something good happens around year 4 or 5. That something good doesn't get reflected in the aggregate W-L.<BR/><BR/>None of which changes the fact that Bowden needs to go.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18342635160848411595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-9826202571452376212008-09-04T23:47:00.000-04:002008-09-04T23:47:00.000-04:00Why? Because wins and losses aren't a relevant way...Why? Because wins and losses aren't a relevant way of measuring GM-ing success?<BR/><BR/>I think it's notable that over the history of MLB, it's highly unusual for any GM to be so totally ineffective for so long and keep his job.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-24109429647389238102008-09-04T23:44:00.000-04:002008-09-04T23:44:00.000-04:00MMmmm... pointless.MMmmm... pointless.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03967066946860270813noreply@blogger.com