tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post3451398736927809620..comments2023-10-17T10:45:07.796-04:00Comments on FJB: Have the Nationals Given Up on Milledge?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-91312378230536902632009-01-04T16:50:00.000-05:002009-01-04T16:50:00.000-05:00i have nothing to add, but thanks for the post, st...i have nothing to add, but thanks for the post, steven. milledge is my favorite player, and i have huge hopes for him.e pochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02529691003022253802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-79110689231303745642009-01-03T20:24:00.000-05:002009-01-03T20:24:00.000-05:00Time will tell, because, ABM is correct Jimbo neve...<I>Time will tell, because, ABM is correct Jimbo never trades his guys because he over values them</I><BR/><BR/>That is not what I meant by what I wrote. What I meant was that Bowden would not trade those players I mentioned unless he got top value for them. Same as you would not trade something you really wanted to keep unless someone totally blew your socks off with an offer.<BR/><BR/>In other words, JayB, you do not agree with me. As always.An Briosca Morhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06855174362787324401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-45276849213632321562009-01-03T18:06:00.000-05:002009-01-03T18:06:00.000-05:00Steven,Well that is starting to make some sense as...Steven,<BR/><BR/>Well that is starting to make some sense as long as you take out the instincts aspect, which of course you can not. Time will tell, because, ABM is correct Jimbo never trades his guys because he over values them.....Milledge will be here because nobody wants him as bad as Jimbo does....that is why we have your blog......and why the Nats once again are on the road to nowhere with him at the wheel.JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-5160513321582589852009-01-03T16:36:00.000-05:002009-01-03T16:36:00.000-05:00Jay--Let's for the sake of argument assume that Mi...Jay--Let's for the sake of argument assume that Milledge is overly confident, thinks his talent will carry him, hasn't always dedicated himself the way he should (I'm not really convinced that he's any different than any other young kid, but for the sake of argument let's say he is)... Isn't it possible that he would mature at some point and focus?<BR/><BR/>The Favre comparison is probably most direct here. He thought he could get by on arm strength in Atlanta, and only when he got to GB and grew up a bit did he harness some of that talent.<BR/><BR/>As far as the instincts thing, you may be right. I'm just not ready to write him off on that basis. But I could see how that could be his undoing.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-77833635659287404152009-01-03T15:52:00.000-05:002009-01-03T15:52:00.000-05:00I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Bowden is...I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Bowden is trying to move Milledge. But if he is, it will be the same situation as the Cordero trade rumors in 2006 and 2007. Bowden will be asking for much more in return than other teams will be willing to give up. He's not just going to dump one of the team's most valuable assets for nothing. If some other GM offers the moon for Milledge, though, Bowden would be stupid not to take it.<BR/><BR/>Corey Patterson was not signed to compete with Milledge for the CF job. He signed a minor league deal, remember. He may not even start spring training in the big league camp. If by some obscure chance he tears it up in Florida, sure they'll add him to the 25-man roster. But they are by no means planning on that happening.An Briosca Morhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06855174362787324401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-8584205890249032842009-01-03T15:36:00.000-05:002009-01-03T15:36:00.000-05:00Oh and Flaw #3 is Milledge has shown nothing ever ...Oh and Flaw #3 is Milledge has shown nothing ever that would lead me to put them in the same sentence with Michael Jordan was old and polished by age 24....not like you keep cutting Milledge slack, "learning the game"….that is just a poor rationalization for lack of progress by Lastings.JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-90369242291955163132009-01-03T15:01:00.000-05:002009-01-03T15:01:00.000-05:00It certainly seems like management has given up on...It certainly seems like management has given up on Milledge- they brought in Corey Patterson and have been linked to Milton Bradley and now, god forbid, Andruw Jones. I don't know why. He really seems to be progressing with the bat, and he is still young enough to keep improving in the field as well. <BR/>I'm not that thrilled with any of the replacements that the Nats have been linked to (Bradley is clearly the best option, but he's only played 100 games in the field once in his 9 year career), so at this point I would rather they give Milledge another year and see what he can do.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12888321537432587766noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-3614780983586378002009-01-03T14:53:00.000-05:002009-01-03T14:53:00.000-05:00Two Flaws Steven.....Tools and talent are differen...Two Flaws Steven.....Tools and talent are different in baseball.....He has tools he does not have CF talent or what I would call instincts. Second Flaw is work ethic....you and I have been through this....I have watched him for 2 hours before game time. I have watched him between pitches. This spring I will be watching at Spring Training....He is NOT one to work at his craft..........he feels he is good enough and that TOOLS is all he needs.....BIG PROBLEM IN BASEBALL.JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-20094431640294555042009-01-03T14:34:00.000-05:002009-01-03T14:34:00.000-05:00The same reason that Collin Balester got better at...The same reason that Collin Balester got better at throwing the change up or Brett Favre reduced his interceptions in 1995-6 or Michael Jordan got better in the post after age 30... you're young, you get challenged at a higher level, you work at it, and you get better. Assuming the talent is there, there's no reason he can't get better.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-28158390394123978492009-01-03T12:31:00.000-05:002009-01-03T12:31:00.000-05:00So it is your contention that at age 24 after 550 ...So it is your contention that at age 24 after 550 AB in CF with the Nats and 2 full years in the Minor Leagues and All of High School and and a few games over two years with the Mets....he is now going to learn to play CF.......and why would this make sense?JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-11411746118133021402009-01-03T09:53:00.000-05:002009-01-03T09:53:00.000-05:00I just made an edit on the original post--it's not...I just made an edit on the original post--it's not accurate to say Milledge was totally new to center. I was misreading Baseball-Ref. He seems to have played there quite a bit from '04-'06. So I think we have to strike the "he was learning a new position" context from our eval.<BR/><BR/>I still see enough improvement on the walk rates, strikeout rates, contact rates, and ISO power to believe the ability is there.<BR/><BR/>As for whether his defense improved as the season went along, I really don't have an opinion. I would have needed to be watching most games in person and really paying attention to him to really say, and suffice it to say I was not. I just see his speed, arm, and athleticism should be enough to allow him to be an average centerfielder.<BR/><BR/>It may never happen, but the potential value of his bat at that position is too great I think to pull the plug this young. That's where I am at this point. If he's given the chance though, 2009 would be a big year for him, and I could move more into your camp if he's still costing us more than a win defensively with a sub-100 OPS+.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-43176211474713373462009-01-03T09:31:00.000-05:002009-01-03T09:31:00.000-05:00Steven,I did the same search and found those and m...Steven,<BR/><BR/>I did the same search and found those and more if you look at the same basic conditions as Milledge for prior years.....most often you find infielders that moved from ss to 2nd Base, and that is tough too, just like LF to CF the ball comes off the bat at a very different angle...I know I made the change in College......lots of young guys like Braun have moved positions and still hit......go back a few years and you will see them.......Point is Milledge is going to be 24 in April.....he regressed again last year.....sure he has talent that is not the point...the point is he is headed in the wrong direction and we should sell high not wait for the trend to continue and be forced to have more Lopez, Kearns, Chad types that now are useless.JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-5177724940898922462009-01-03T09:11:00.000-05:002009-01-03T09:11:00.000-05:00The problem with trading Milledge for a pitcher is...The problem with trading Milledge for a pitcher is that pitchers have a way higher flop rate than hitters because of injuries. You gotta be really, really careful about trading young hitting for young pitching.<BR/><BR/>I think you're better off building the pitching staff by stockpiling live arms via trading vets and draft picks.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-2221763152552038412009-01-03T09:08:00.000-05:002009-01-03T09:08:00.000-05:00Jay--I did actually look at other teams. There wer...Jay--I did actually look at other teams. There were exactly 6 batting title-qualified players age 23 or younger in 2008, linked here: http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/pE9Z.<BR/><BR/>They were, in order of OPS+:<BR/>Evan Longoria--125<BR/>Delmon Young--102<BR/>Lastings Milledge--91<BR/>Daric Barton--85<BR/>Adam Jones--85<BR/>Carlos Gomez--79<BR/><BR/>None of these guys was asked to change positions either. Gomez is probably the closest comp, having played all three defensive outfield positions, but even he wasn't as new to center as Milledge.<BR/><BR/>I know you aren't a Milledge fan, and that's ok, but arguing that 23 isn't really all that young is a really uncompelling argument.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-37281600956868570852009-01-03T08:57:00.000-05:002009-01-03T08:57:00.000-05:00I concur with sentiments that Milledge has not pro...I concur with sentiments that Milledge has not progressed like people hoped, and not necessarily at the hyped, overblown, doomed-to-disappoint level predicted by Bowden.<BR/><BR/>However, I don't think Milledge was that much more a letdown than any of the other youthful "core" of the team. Flores hit nothing special for a catcher, with a sub- .700 OPS. As for hitting breaking balls, I didn't see any player swing feebly at as much out-of-the-zone crap as I did a certain overhyped third baseman of the future.<BR/><BR/>That said, given the logjam of corner outfielders, I wouldn't mind seeing Milledge flipped for some decent, QUALITY near-major-league ready pitching. I'd really prefer they moved Kearns and ate some of his contract, but that's not going to happen. <BR/><BR/>I share Steven's nagging feeling that Milledge might be dumped for a lackluster return in a fire sale.James Bjorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12300788103065851752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-85611004366774372782009-01-03T08:53:00.000-05:002009-01-03T08:53:00.000-05:00Hendo, Lets not get caught up in semantics here......Hendo, Lets not get caught up in semantics here......Yes he can crow hope and throw with his momentum going forward.....but he does not...he throws off his back foot all the time....that is poor fundamentals and yes he can cut a corner rounding 3rd and heading home but he does not, he ends up near closer to the visiting team dugout in Nats park then the baseline. Yes he can hit a cut off man but he does not..........yes he could take a pitch after a 4 pitch walk but he does not.....goes on and on.......<BR/><BR/>Leadership is a huge issue and that is one of the MANY MANNY problems I see. Acta is not the right person to teach this team how to win games......he is a Single A manager at best. Even with all these fundamental errors every game, every inning, Acta talks about how much progress is being made....really....is that why Jerry M admitted in September that Milledge had to play on the warning track because he had not learned after 500 innings how to go back on a ball?JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-2379553198435981902009-01-03T08:31:00.000-05:002009-01-03T08:31:00.000-05:00Trading Milledge now would be giving up. He's the...Trading Milledge now would be giving up. He's the kind of guy you <I>want</I> in trade. And you can be sure there are teams that do -- although they'll keep their interest muted as they try to yield as little as possible, even as they cast sending Church and Schneider to the Mets as a giveaway or a bust.<BR/><BR/>It's incorrect to say Milledge doesn't have fundamentals, because we've seen him execute them well at times. It's certainly correct to say he hasn't always executed them as he should, which I think points as much to the leadership and expectations of the team as it does to Milledge.<BR/><BR/>Change is needed, but not necessarily in center field. (Which, I guess, is why we're here.)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915120760049904431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-19246175215318669622009-01-03T07:00:00.000-05:002009-01-03T07:00:00.000-05:00Don't see it at all. His Defense got worse in Sep...Don't see it at all. His Defense got worse in September not better by my eye. <BR/><BR/>Trend line......he got hot finally for a month....that is not a trend...so did Austin Kearns....when are you going to write about why he should be starting based on moving his numbers up before getting hurt again!<BR/><BR/>Youth.....23 is not that young.....look at other teams and you will see examples of 23 year olds who have developed and changed positions, please stop making excuses for him. His projections are based on his age and experience and he did not get close to them. <BR/><BR/>He is not the type of hard worker that is going to improve at age 24 in my view. I could be wrong and hope so, but the biggest problem with Lastings is his lack of baseball fundamentals....he has had 5 years to learn the game and show no interest at all in playing smart baseball.....trade him high now and get some pitching help.JayBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11448827055342357809noreply@blogger.com