tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post8842752919608013404..comments2023-10-17T10:45:07.796-04:00Comments on FJB: The Plan: Dead, Buried and Gone (?)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-49517845496231805802009-04-15T17:42:00.000-04:002009-04-15T17:42:00.000-04:00How long does Bernadina stay up? Just until Harri...How long does Bernadina stay up? Just until Harris is healthy again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-57238829926203745062009-04-15T17:41:00.000-04:002009-04-15T17:41:00.000-04:00In terms of how people react to Milledge and his a...In terms of how people react to Milledge and his alleged attitude problem, Steven is making the most sense. The problems with him seem to be entirely a creation of the media, that they're the sort of thing people repeat without any backing, but it gets repeated so much it becomes accepted as fact.<br /><br />As for clubhouse chemistry, again, bunk. Someone brought up the A's, well, the A's dynasty in the 70's wasn't exactly a happy family, and they DOMINATED. The 1986 Mets hated each other. The Cardinals teams of the 80's barely spoke to one another. The late 70s Yankees weren't exactly buddy-buddy. Did the Marlins WS teams even know each other's names? There are plenty of teams that could hold hands all day long that never won a thing. Team chemistry is horribly overrated and largely unrelated to performance.<br /><br />That said, I don't think it's such problem to send him to the minors. If Kearns or Willingham are to have any value in the trade market, they'll have to put some numbers up ASAP. That can't be done with Milledge in the OF, unless you sit Dukes or Dunn. Milledge's skills need fine tuning, and a good deal of it. He needs to learn how to take a pitch, not be a liability once on base, and be the captain of an outfield. That <I>could</I> be done at the MLB level, but since the team is not going to win anything (and perhaps anytime...) this season, why not roll the dice on Willingham or Kearns having a huge first half? It seems like that is the course of action that gives them the best chance of success in the long run.Mike Liszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05629735358515044431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-69924264496489561172009-04-15T17:27:00.000-04:002009-04-15T17:27:00.000-04:00Ah, but Steven, I could care less about the splash...Ah, but Steven, I could care less about the splash if he could actually play at the big league level. The showboating of a Henderson or Bonds never bothered me. In fact, the passing of Fidrych reminds us of the many unique personalities that have played this game. Now, if you are going to call attention to yourself, you better be able to back it up, lest you look like a fool. Lastings does appear to have some God-given talent, but the young man definitely needs to develop the requisite skills if he wants a long career in baseball.Doctor Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03240539980534557120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-83280187191481682772009-04-15T15:19:00.000-04:002009-04-15T15:19:00.000-04:00This is the kind of thing I was talking about when...This is the kind of thing I was talking about when I said that some fans don't like Milledge's style. Not to single you out Dr. Joe, but you make a handy point in case:<br /><br />"Milledge is splashy and ostentatious, no doubt about that"Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-32807536964640884772009-04-15T14:31:00.000-04:002009-04-15T14:31:00.000-04:00Now that he's no longer a big leaguer, I bet if Mi...Now that he's no longer a big leaguer, I bet if Milledge takes an off-season job at <A HREF="http://www.tv.com/the-simpsons/itchy-and-scratchy-land/episode/1392/trivia.html" REL="nofollow">TGI McScratchy's</A> to make ends meet, he'll do it with <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFl380crWOM" REL="nofollow">flair</A>.An Briosca Morhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06855174362787324401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-39952710274895391212009-04-15T14:19:00.000-04:002009-04-15T14:19:00.000-04:00By the way, Steven. I was recently turned on to y...By the way, Steven. I was recently turned on to your web page and it is very good. You and I will not see eye-to-eye all the time, but the material is quite thought provoking. Good work.Doctor Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03240539980534557120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-70063885170384764952009-04-15T13:54:00.000-04:002009-04-15T13:54:00.000-04:00Steven, did I really read you state that Milledge...Steven, did I really read you state that Milledge plays the game with flair?? Joe Dimaggio had flair. Willie Mays had flair. Rickey Henderson had flair. Bonds, Griffey - they played with flair. I think you are confused. Milledge is splashy and ostentatious, no doubt about that. But sir, he most assuredly does NOT play the game with flair. It takes real baseball skills to do that.Doctor Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03240539980534557120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-13563436262619489422009-04-15T10:50:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:50:00.000-04:00To respond for myself, Stephen, when I say that Mi...To respond for myself, Stephen, when I say that Milledge needs a reality check, I am not saying that with the implied voice of the Nats' coaches or front office. For myself, it just seems that way, and I'm pretty sure I've said enough on your blog to prove that I don't have anything against hip-hop, dreadlocks, or young people. In fact, I love Milledge. <br /><br />But here's what's a little upsetting to me: his refusal to take responsibility for his bad defense when confronted about the two Bonifacio hits that went over his head; his refusal to do any more work than necessary (I'm talking specifically about the interview he gave about not wanting to show up any earlier than mandated, including his claim that 5 minutes watching video and 15 minutes in the cages is enough preparation); and his recent claim that he knows he's better than he's playing now.<br /><br />Of course he's better than how he's playing now, but not that much. He's terrible defensively and in a full season last year he was terrible offensively. I agree that he plays hard and supports his teammates, and I don't have a problem with his attitude toward the game or in general, but he needs a lot of work and he needs to admit to himself that he needs that work. <br /><br />I could be wrong about him needing a reality check, and I'm okay if you disagree with me about it, but I do think that there's plenty of evidence to suggest that he doesn't realize that he's not good, doesn't realize that there's a difference between his potential and his present skill. <br /><br />Again, I don't know that that's the reason the Nats are doing this. It could be because of hip-hop for them. But for me, it seems like he needs to get it through his head that he's a AAA player and has been for the last three years.e pochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02529691003022253802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-73169339296738504662009-04-15T10:33:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:33:00.000-04:00Well, maybe I have blinders, but watching the guy ...Well, maybe I have blinders, but watching the guy play, I just don't see it. And if his attitude was so much worse than the average guy, I think we'd see it. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, but I just don't see evidence that the supposed attitude is anything more than a guy who has more of an NBA style in MLB, which isn't a conspiracy at all, but also isn't really an attitude problem so much as a culture clash.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-8519746130757674272009-04-15T10:27:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:27:00.000-04:00and it was responded to .. you are never going to ...and it was responded to .. you are <I>never</I> going to get that sort of stuff from the team. The fact is that these undercurrents have followed Milledge from his high school days. <br /><br />Listen, I'm not saying he is a clubhouse cancer, but you cannot simply ignore the comments that frequently follow him. Reporters from New York and Washington suggest it in their writing. The radio and TV faces and voices talk about it. This is not a huge conspiracy against one guy. <br /><br />The fact is that the truth behind the move will never be known and is likely a whole lot less interesting than either side of the argument believes.<br /><br />Milledge had options remaining. The Nationals had a guy they thought could play CF but apparently cannot. With Willie Harris on the DL and Elijah Dukes as their only CF, they made a move.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755603473119975849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-59962355854578495742009-04-15T10:26:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:26:00.000-04:00"What do you see that justifies the conclusion tha..."What do you see that justifies the conclusion that he's a big cancerous attitude problem who needs to be shipped off the Syracuse?"<br /><br />Again. Leave the stupid hyperbole out of the argument.<br /><br />Why do you take EVERY THING to the extreme?<br /><br />He doesn't have to be "cancerous" to have an attitude problem.<br /><br />If you can't see -- from the stories, the implications, and some of the comments (his own included) -- that he's someone who doesn't want to put the work necessary to maximize his talent, then you've got a bigass set of blinders on.<br /><br />Maybe that's not a reason to demote him, but to pretend it doesn't exist is ridiculous.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-29764127507314811972009-04-15T10:16:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:16:00.000-04:00Harper says it better:
"Was it his attitude? Al...Harper says it better: <br /><br />"Was it his attitude? Almost certainly. But as far as I have heard this consists of showing up late to a meeting on his birthday (for which he was fined and punished) and not doing what everyone else does and showing up a mere half hour before stretches. Not that he wasn't participating in team stretches or that he was told to come 3 hours before and didn't. It was that he didn't follow some ass-backward tradition and that irked some guys in the clubhouse. You want to know what's really irking the guys in the clubhouse? The fact they're 0-7. If they were 7-0 you think they'd care? I love sports because of their simplicity - the most talented players between the white lines create the most wins. Heart, morality, personality all get checked at the door. If you don't play your most talented team - you are going to lose more often than not."Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-17987400229953475652009-04-15T10:14:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:14:00.000-04:00I think you two are overreacting a bit. I said tha...I think you two are overreacting a bit. I said that some people didn't like him from the start because he takes more of an NBA style and less of what I consider a stodgy, MLB traditionalist approach. I'm not saying that's most fans, and I'm not saying there aren't legitimate critisms of Milledge. But some people didn't like him from the start because of his style. I'm not sure how you disagree with that.<br /><br />@Brian--I asked epoc this same question before, and it's not rhetorical. What EXACTLY have we seen or heard that justifies the claim that he's such an attitude problem. I'm not in the clubhouse, but I just don't see it. He claps for his teammates when he's not playing, he seems to be making an effort to be more patient as a lead-off man, etc. I don't see him dogging it. I see a guy who lacks some key skills that make him ill-suited to play centerfield, but I don't see that as an effort thing. When he takes an uneven route to the ball that forces him to dive crashing into the wall to make a catch, that's a guy who's willing to crash into a wall but isn't athletic enough to make the play look easy. Right? If there's more to it, you tell me. What do you see that justifies the conclusion that he's a big cancerous attitude problem who needs to be shipped off the Syracuse?Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-5388855183384539602009-04-15T10:04:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:04:00.000-04:00"I've heard lots of people on talk radio, blogs, c..."I've heard lots of people on talk radio, blogs, chat rooms, at the stadium say things like, "I don't like that kid with his rap music, and his nappy hair...""<br /><br />Really? Not just the voices in your head?<br /><br />I realize that's a bit of hyperbole, but that's the problem with the argument you're making. You're arguing a strawman, when there's a more reasonable argument there in the middle.<br /><br />That might work on Fox News, but it sounds stupid here.Chris Needhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10455692848328638937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-13330462771618806422009-04-15T10:01:00.000-04:002009-04-15T10:01:00.000-04:00Then there also should be some merit in the assump...Then there also should be some merit in the assumptions based upon what we have read and heard about Milledge's attitude.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755603473119975849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-73670783406810128512009-04-15T09:38:00.000-04:002009-04-15T09:38:00.000-04:00Brian--I've heard lots of people on talk radio, bl...Brian--I've heard lots of people on talk radio, blogs, chat rooms, at the stadium say things like, "I don't like that kid with his rap music, and his nappy hair..." It's not an assumption, and I'm not saying that it's the first reason for most fans, but it's A reason for SOME fans, clearly.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-69967541761418606432009-04-15T09:20:00.000-04:002009-04-15T09:20:00.000-04:00I don't think too many people have "turned" on Mil...I don't think too many people have "turned" on Millege. I heard all offseason many were calling him to be traded. I heard lots of questions and complaints when he was announced as the starting CF early in ST with no competition. I heard a lot of people express doubt when he was first announced as the leadoff hitter. I think a lot of Nats fans had questions about Millege all offseason, and his performance to start the season just pushed them to despise his status as the unquestioned CF of this team.<br /><br />Another factor in the Millege hating is that Millege got a starting job, no questions asked while Dukes, who is probably a better player, was riding the bench for "poor ST performance." The explanations didn't make any sense.<br /><br />Finally, I think this move will help Millege. I think not forcing him to compete for a job hurt him this offseason. I maintain that it's not his 4-27 start that shows he's not ready (that's too small a sample size to make this sort of move) but the fact that he doesn't know how to field a fly ball. He looks drunk going back on deep balls in CF. There can be some on the job training for young prospects, but he needs to learn the basics of fielding the outfield. That should be done in the minors, not at the expense of (currently) better players like Dukes. Millege is still young and he's an incredibly gifted athlete. I hope he figures out how to field his position and comes back to show us the potential Manny has seen all along.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-68550567318794011332009-04-15T08:37:00.000-04:002009-04-15T08:37:00.000-04:00Steven - You can no more assume it's a "hip-hop, d...Steven - You can no more assume it's a "hip-hop, dreadlocks, youth" thing than the people you are criticizing can immediately assume the counterpoint.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755603473119975849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-49798434509204436862009-04-15T08:08:00.000-04:002009-04-15T08:08:00.000-04:00Basil--that's fair, but I just don't buy it. These...Basil--that's fair, but I just don't buy it. These guys are all very public figures. We see them on TV all the time. If he really doesn't take his job seriously, I think we'd have much more concrete examples in front of us. Manny Ramirez sits down in left field and makes cell phone calls during pitching changes. It's pretty clear that he's not taking a professional approach. OK, that's an extreme example. Look at Scott Olsen. We know he has problems becacuse we've seen Joe Girardi shoving him in the dugout and fist fights with Miguel Cabrera and Randy Messenger. Terrell Owens. Dennis Rodman. Etc.<br /><br />In Milledge's case, it's all implied, this vague sense of baggage that started in NY because the media wanted to manufacture a story and Wagner and Lo Duca gave them a chance to do so.<br /><br />Some people I think were dead set on not liking Milledge from the get go. Some people don't like hip-hop, dreadlocks, youth, etc. He plays the game with more of an NBA-style flair. Some people take offense at that. I think those people are fuddy-duddies, but even if I agreed with them I don't think it's fair to deduce from his flashy demeanor that he's not taking a professional approach to the game.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-4251154541454877012009-04-15T07:53:00.000-04:002009-04-15T07:53:00.000-04:00epoc--what's the evidence that he needs a reality ...<B>epoc--what's the evidence that he needs a reality check? that he missed Manny's speech? I just haven't heard or seen anything that corroborates the accusation that he doesn't take a perfectly professional approach to his job--Marquis Grissom isn't saying that he's not practicing hard enough. Lenny and Rick Eckstein aren't saying he's not coachable.</B>Since the Nats don't really have an open-file policy for this kind of thing, it's less about evidence in terms of "testimony" from the team's coaches and more about assigning inferences that flow from the beatwriters' background info and, ultimately, from the organization's actions. And here, it just seems as though Lastings rubs the organization's authority figures the wrong way. You could demand better evidence of this, sure, but it still seems pretty apparent. <br /><br />I do understand the frustration, though; I recall feeling similarly when Church was yanked around in 2006. And Milledge is now, unlike Church then, a projectable guy still of prospect age. Would this stuff have come up so much if Milledge didn't have an option year remaining? No. But he does, and his demotion is also the most expedient way for Manny to handle the flux in the OF, which has seemed a difficulty so far. Milledge's bad start/defense/apparent "attitude issues/etc. are both the cause and the pretext here.Basilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10346481140960787459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-31262550605755051472009-04-14T22:35:00.000-04:002009-04-14T22:35:00.000-04:00I think there's an upside and a downside to Milled...I think there's an upside and a downside to Milledge's demotion. On balance, I don't have a problem with it.<br /><br />Of course we don't have quotes in the WaPo or other outlets from Grissom or Eckstein saying anything bad about Milledge like he's "not coachable"!<br /><br />Do you honestly think that this kind of dirty laundry is routinely revealed in public to the press? First, this kind of stuff stays in the clubhouse. It would league-wide news and an ESPN headline a la Yankees controversies if either coach leaked dirt about a full-blown attitude problem. Second, from a purely selfish standpoint, the team doesn't want to degrade Milledge's potential trade value by adding "baggage." Leaked quotes to that effect from "Unnamed Nats coaching staff member" would do that in a hurry.Sniviushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01362759420902407469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-79744339687653039772009-04-14T22:09:00.000-04:002009-04-14T22:09:00.000-04:00I think Rizzo made the right call for a few reason...I think Rizzo made the right call for a few reasons, but specifically because it appears that Manny has soured on Milledge. Would you rather have Milledge play 3 of 7 days each week in the majors or play 6 of 7 in AAA? At this point of the year where his swing is out of whack and his defense is still terrible, I vote AAA. It certainly didn't help his cause that he missed the meeting (how would your boss felt if you skipped a meeting?). It appears that Manny doesn't think he's dedicated enough to the team to play.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00096823960889095209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-44449519406007366432009-04-14T21:56:00.000-04:002009-04-14T21:56:00.000-04:00The team needed a jolt, a wake up call. Short of ...The team needed a jolt, a wake up call. Short of firing Manny, this was the best idea. Now they can showcase the others and dump one or two of them.<br /><br />Sec314IPLawguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08681244219906144243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-88971543793126613472009-04-14T21:29:00.000-04:002009-04-14T21:29:00.000-04:00If Milledge shows up for work on time and puts in ...If Milledge shows up for work on time and puts in some extra preparation, then he deserves a shot.<br /><br />If he doesn't do those things and sends out an attitude of "I'm ready now and I don't need to be told otherwise," and puts up the performance he has to date, then he deserves to go to AAA.<br /><br />Why should he get a pass?Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915120760049904431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2074246508221440257.post-76002403121456323152009-04-14T21:21:00.000-04:002009-04-14T21:21:00.000-04:00epoc--what's the evidence that he needs a reality ...epoc--what's the evidence that he needs a reality check? that he missed Manny's speech? I just haven't heard or seen anything that corroborates the accusation that he doesn't take a perfectly professional approach to his job--Marquis Grissom isn't saying that he's not practicing hard enough. Lenny and Rick Eckstein aren't saying he's not coachable. The numbers suggest that he's actually TOO MUCH trying to change his game to be a lead-off man. It just seems like the NY media stuck him with the tag as "a bad guy" and it sticks because he's not ryan Zimmerman.Stevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14109288910583404941noreply@blogger.com