Friday, December 5, 2008

You've Not Seen Nothin' from the Mighty Zim...

OK people, this is what I want to hear about. The Tex talk is fun and all, but re-signing Ryan Zimmerman is a MUST.

Talks between Zimmerman and the team to resume after the winter meetings. Enough low-balling non-sense. It's time to pay up and get him in the fold till age 30. He'll never be cheaper than he is right now, so just go get it done.

So fans, join me in a singalong, to the tune of the Dylan classic "Quinn the Eskimo."

When they hand out gold gloves, he should get all the votes,
His homers are hit to the monuments,
As reporters are jotting down notes,
Fans are in despair,
Ev'ry girl and boy
But when Zimm the National re-signs,
Ev'rybody's gonna jump for joy.
Hittin' homers out, knockin' runners in,
You've not seen nothing like the Mighty Zimm.

Get it done, Jim! No excuses! None!!!


Will said...

Particularly now that Pedroia just signed for 6/$40mil. I'm still confused as to why the reigning MVP would sign to that deal, but it certainly strengthens the Nats Front Office's case.

Something slightly more than Tulowitzki's 6/$31 is what Zimm should get. He may think he's better than that, but he hasn't proven it yet. And he's certainly not close to the Pedroia/Utley/HanRams of the league.

Steven said...

Pedroia didn't get more because he didn't come close to deserving the MVP. That vote told us a lot more about the biases of the BBWAA than Pedroia's value.

Don't get me wrong--he's a very nice player, but he's nowhere near the most valuable player in the AL or the superstar that a Hanley Ramirez or Chase Utley is.

Sorry. In fact, I'm not sure that Pedroia's going to be any more valuable than Zimmerman. He plays a more premium defensive position, but Zimmerman is a far superior defender, and could easily match him offensively. Too many people are looking at the power-zapping shoulder injury from 2008 and deciding that's the "real Zim." It's not. He's still a budding star.

The other factor you're forgetting is that Tulo signed his deal with one year of service time. When a young player signs long-term, he's trading upside potential for security, guarding against the risk of injury, getting market value in some of their club-controlled years, etc. Zimm is now 3 years from FA. He's going to get multiple millions in arb starting now. Tulo was 5 years away when he signed. Hanely, Utley, Pedroia all signed before they got to their arb years. So the window of opp'y on that discount is mostly gone.

Bottom line, we'll probably have to pay as much or more than Pedroia got to keep Zimmerman through age 30. And we should do that.

Steve Shoup said...

I don't think you can say he didn't come close to being the MVP. Maybe you can argue that Siezmore, Mauer or someone else deserved it a little more but it was a close race and Pedroia was def. in the running. He finished 3rd in the AL in VORP, (only 2.6 points behind AROD and 1 point behind Sizemore, not like Pujols finishing 20 points ahead of Hanley Rameriz) 3rd in Runs created (ESPN's version) 2nd in the league in batting average. He finished the year with a .870 OPS, over 200 hits, 73 extra base hits, and struckout less than 10 % of the time. Now you can make almost as strong a case for sizemore but the fact remains Pedroia is one of the best young players in the game and played like an MVP.

As for Pedroia being less valuable than Zim, I think its closer than what most people make it out to be but Pedroia has more value in the end. I think you are right 2008 could have been the zimmerman breakout year where he joined the ranks of the top offensive 3B in the game. The injuries did set him back there is no doubt about it. The fact remains though that after 3 seasons he has a career OPS of .802 which while decent puts him around the 10th best 3B in the game. If he had a OPS around .870 like Pedroia had he would be like the 5th or 6th best 3B. That to me is exactly where Zimmerman should be he just hasn't shown it yet. If I was listing the best all around 3B in the game I would have AROD, Wright, Chipper, Longoria and maybe Rameriez ahead of Zimmerman. Unfortunantly his .802 OPS is closer to Alex Gordon's than it is to David Wright's. So while I hope the Nats extend Zimmerman soon I don't think we should go around thinking that he deserves the world.

Steven said...

Steve--I think you're putting a lot of stock just on counting stats, and Pedroia gets a big advantage because he played 157 games batting at the top of the order in a very good lineup.

You're probably right that it's not right to say that he didn't come close to deserving it, but he's not a superstar and he wasn't the MVP. Very good player, not an Utley or Ramirez.

Steve Shoup said...

I don't know Steven I actually think this is a case where counting stats aren't being overvalued (like in the case of Ryan Howard where his HR's and RBI's were considered to be worthy of MVP talk this year). In this decade between two leagues only one other time has a player won the MVP with less than 20 HR's Ichiro in 2001. And only Ichiro and Jimmy Rollins last year had less than 100 RBI's during their MVP campaign. Sure maybe Pedroia wouldn't have led the AL in runs had he been on a different team but he still had a great season. And on a team of stars he put together a pretty damn good year. And in terms of being most valuable I dont think the Sox make the playoffs without him. I think Pedroia was helped being on the Sox bc they were a playoff team so they and him were in the spotlight more than Grady Sizemore. I would have said Sizemore deserved the MVP but I fully understand the reasoning for Pedroia.

Steven said...

To be honest I'm not that interested in the MVP debate. It's so hopelessly wrong-headed and biased that it just kind of bores me. If Pedroia played for the Minnesota Twins, he'd have no chance to be MVP. That's a fact.

But the point is really less about whether Pedroia deserved the MVP and whether his contract is somehow evidence the the Nationals should offer Zimmerman much less and walk away if he refuses, as they did last year. He had a very good year. But I don't think he's the kind of superstar who deserves superstar money. I think his contract was appropriate for a very good but not great player, which is what I think he is.